Grounding procedure

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Grounding procedure

Post  Woodwalker128 on Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:04 pm

When installing grounds on a 3 phase pole do you go from neutral to phase, and then phase to phase after that, or do you install each ground from neutral to phase? I have seen it done both ways and was wondering what everyone's practice was.

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Re: Grounding procedure

Post  rcdallas on Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:50 pm

Woodwalker128 wrote:When installing grounds on a 3 phase pole do you go from neutral to phase, and then phase to phase after that, or do you install each ground from neutral to phase? I have seen it done both ways and was wondering what everyone's practice was.

neutral to center
center to inside
center to outside

reverse to remove

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Re: Grounding procedure

Post  topgroove on Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:09 am

Here at Grid, when equipotential grounding became the rule many years ago, the engineers wanted us to install the phase to phase grounds first and than, phase to nuetral. there thinking was if we had an accidental single phase energization the relays at the station would sence the fault quicker and clear the fault faster. I can see their reasoning behind it.

We never felt comfortable doing that and they finally caved in and wrote up the grounding procedure to show nuetral to phase first. Our thinking on it was, if I'm on the pole in my hooks I want the wood on the pole at my feet and anything I'm touching to be at the same potential as the nuetral. everything around me I want to be at the same potential.
a human is a much better conductor than a wood pole. after the ground cluster is installed on the pole it digs right in to the pole and is securely bonded to ground and the nuetral. Than we use the shotgun stick and ground from nuetral to phase , grounded phase to phase to phase.

BTW woodwalker, welcome to the forums! its a pleasure to have you onboard Cheers!
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Re: Grounding procedure

Post  lewy on Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:14 am

I have seen guys do it both ways, to me depending on the construction & wether you are on the pole or in a bucket you ground the nearest phase first & work away. I agree I would never bond the conductors together than ground them. We also equipotential ground & some guys will go from the neutral to the first phase & run a separate ground to the pole band & some will go from the pole band to the first phase, I think either way is fine, just rember the band can't be more than 8' below your feet.

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Re: Grounding procedure

Post  rcdallas on Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:41 pm

I lied on the removal

outside
inside
center

The way I was taught to put grounds on (duckbill grounds) is to hang all three grounds on the neutral; so you should have a total of six duckbills on the neutral at this time. I tighten down the one that is going to stay on the neutral while I'm there.

I then back up and put my shotgun on a duck bill and raise it to the center phase and tighten the snot out of it.

Grab another duckbill with my stick and bring it back up to the center; then grab the other end of it with my stick and go on with the inside phase.

You get the idea; I like this way as you aren't fumbling around with your grounds it's all smooth, neat and organized. Basically do the same thing when removing them; just end up with all six back at the neutral. Doing this I only have to move my bucket one time working the outside - instead of elevator music cruising around the sky.

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Re: Grounding procedure

Post  lewy on Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:22 pm

If I am grounding a 3 phase line on a cross arm from a bucket I would ground the near phase first then the centre phase then the far phase, on the pole it really doesn't matters what order you go.

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Re: Grounding procedure

Post  Highplains Drifter on Thu May 03, 2012 11:37 am

rcdallas™ wrote:I lied on the removal

outside
inside
center

The way I was taught to put grounds on (duckbill grounds) is to hang all three grounds on the neutral; so you should have a total of six duckbills on the neutral at this time. I tighten down the one that is going to stay on the neutral while I'm there.

I then back up and put my shotgun on a duck bill and raise it to the center phase and tighten the snot out of it.

Grab another duckbill with my stick and bring it back up to the center; then grab the other end of it with my stick and go on with the inside phase.

You get the idea; I like this way as you aren't fumbling around with your grounds it's all smooth, neat and organized. Basically do the same thing when removing them; just end up with all six back at the neutral. Doing this I only have to move my bucket one time working the outside - instead of elevator music cruising around the sky.

I have a hard time with one man in the primary and to me installing grounds is a two man job. First of all you can have those duck bills, I do not like them and have seen them so many times, because they are not properly installed become loose. I always feel when all three grounds from each phase are grounded to the neutral a man has just created a fuse with the distance of the wire between each ground. I like to use a pole mount and just have one ground to the neutral.
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Re: Grounding procedure

Post  Highplains Drifter on Thu May 03, 2012 11:38 am

lewy wrote:If I am grounding a 3 phase line on a cross arm from a bucket I would ground the near phase first then the centre phase then the far phase, on the pole it really doesn't matters what order you go.

I agree with lewy that it doesn’t matter what order the grounds are installed.

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Re: Grounding procedure

Post  Highplains Drifter on Thu May 03, 2012 12:03 pm

So instead of starting another thread let’s keep talking about grounding but take it below ground level. What is your proper procedure for grounding underground cable? Do you test it dead and then place the elbow in a feed through ( Dolly Parton….binoculars ) and then install a grounded elbow? All the under ground unless transmission I have worked uses the concentric or shield as the common neutral. So if you have grounded both sides and have a fault in between, now when you cut the cable to splice it you have just opened the common neutral and if there happens to be a fault on that circuit there might be lots of fault current on that neutral you just opened.

So how are you protecting your self? Are you removing the jacket so far back and installing a jumper? Or instead of grounding the faulted cable one could just bleed of the capacitance and remove the grounded elbow and cut the concentric at both ends. Now one would have an isolated piece of cable that is not part of the common neutral.

How about transformer change out? Are you EPG? You can by having a grounding mat and running grounds to every where anything is grounded in the transformer. I try to stay away from underground so I am looking forward to hear about others’ procedures.
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Re: Grounding procedure

Post  lewy on Thu May 03, 2012 5:33 pm

I hear what you are saying about cutting the neutral doing a splice, they tell you to never break a neutral on the over head with leather gloves. When working with dead fronts I would say park both cables then test & ground at both ends then remove the concentric at one end with rubber gloves. The nice thing about elbow connected U.G. is it is pretty hard to have an accidental energization, some one is going to have to pull your tag & energize it. Now with live fronts that is a different subject, it is possible for an accidental energization as well as induction so I would leave the grounds on at both ends.

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